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10. Introducing the Martin Brothers landscaping

August 29, 2018

In this episode, Damian chats to Will Martin from the Martin Brothers, a landscape business specialising in constructing incredible landscapes through to maintaining the projects long term. If you’ve ever wondered about the landscaping industry, this episode will be informative for you!

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In this episode we cover:

  • What’s the best part of landscaping?
  • What aspects of landscaping are popular at the moment?
  • How do people manage their own garden challenges?
  • Where should people spend their landscaping dollars?
  • Are there any specific plants that work best for our environment?
  • What kind of maintenance and care is needed for maintaining gardens?
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Damian Hackett: Welcome back to the Brisbane Real Estate Podcast. Today I'm sitting here with Will Martin who's one of the two Martin brothers known around town for Martin Brothers Landscaping Company. Welcome will.

Will Martin:

Damian, thanks for having me, mate.

Damian Hackett:

So Will, I guess straight of the bat, is it Jamie Durie or Don Burke? You know? I'm thinking a couple of good looking roosters like you, you're probably more Jamie Durie?

Will Martin:

When we first started, the shirts off was a big thing for us, so it was definitely a bit more Jamie Durie, but over the past few months we've brought on Sam who's running the media for our business. And so we've put a much bigger emphasis onto how much we talk around the sites and projects. So I've definitely watched a couple of Jamie Durie videos, he's the king at it.

Damian Hackett:

Particularly with a bit of Don's history lately, I think Jamie Durie's probably the better look, I guess. So tell us about it. How did you guys get started? Has it always been a passion? Or, I mean, you guys have been running now since ... is it 2014?

Will Martin:

Yeah, 2014. So we just celebrated at the start of this month, July, we celebrated our fourth year in business. It's grown a lot over the four years, but when we started we never had the big plan like we have now. There was a need in the market for a few of our family friends around the neighborhood who had people that weren't maintaining their gardens properly. So Jack and I always had a knack for business and we borrowed our dad's tools and his lawnmower and his whipper snipper. And Jack had a Ute at the time. And yeah, it was pretty humble beginnings.

Damian Hackett:

Pretty much it was looking after yards at first?

Will Martin:

Yeah, it started off just mowing lawns. It was all residential work. And just in landscaping one thing leads to the next. Someone wants their mulch done, someone wants a new tree planted or some edging, and we just never said no. So it was one of those things that because it grew organically, we were able to learn at a consistent rate and nothing was too outlandish and we just managed to grow the business starting off in maintenance and then did more and more landscape. And we really found our strats and we started doing more landscape construction work. So when we got into that, became really passionate about it, dropped out of university and started Martin Brothers. And that was four years ago. So yeah, it's going well.

Damian Hackett:

It's only just begun, I guess, as far as plans go.

Will Martin:

Yeah, we've got big plans. It's in South East Queensland now, but it's all looking good.

Damian Hackett:

Just touching on the fact you started with mowing lawns etc, a lot of people think of landscape and they think of plants and trees and lawns. But obviously a big part of it is the hard landscaping as well. How has that evolved in your business?

Will Martin:

It's one of the aspects that you can't just start doing. Like, there's a lot more that goes into the construction side of the work. So that's what I spent a lot of my time doing. I spend all my time running the sites while Jack runs the office and wins the jobs. So I really found that I enjoyed that side of the business, so I spent a lot of time with builders on site and then I'd end up getting my certificates in the hard scape side. It's a part of our business that we're really passionate about because it does help transform a space, not only just with soft scape but the hard scape, putting in timber and concrete and seats.

Damian Hackett:

So you're doing that in house now?

Will Martin:

Yeah, everything. We're try and do as much as we possibly can in house. So obviously the typical trades of electrical and plumbing and works like that we still subcontract out, but we do the majority of our concreting in house, majority of our block work in house, and as the business grows, we're just trying to do more and more in house.

Will Martin:

The two biggest drivers for it is, one is quality and two is adaptability. If people come to us and say, "We've got a short timeframe on a job," which happens all the time in landscaping, it's very easy for us to move and adapt and take on the job if we're doing it in house. Whereas, if you've got to rely on subcontractors, it's a lot harder, a lot slower to move.

Damian Hackett:

So I guess you'd be dealing with new homes and renovations as part of it, where, I guess you'd be working in with the builders and the architects, I'd understand? And then also maybe it would just be people who say, "Listen, my whole yard needs a makeover and you're the only trade on site." Is that pretty much how it runs these days?

Will Martin:

There's a big split between residential and commercial. So on the commercial work there has to be a landscape architect because they do the one consistent sent of designs and it's that we can get a competitive tender against. Whereas, on the residential side there's a lot more emotion involved. So it's more about dealing face-to-face with a mom and dad or a young couple and they're saying that, "We just built a house. We're in the process of designing it," and I think that's where our niche is, is Jack really gets in in the design phase of the build and then implements the landscape through it as well.

Damian Hackett:

How has it rolled out now? How much of your work is in residential versus commercial? Is there a balance there?

Will Martin:

Honestly, it's a clean 50-50 split. So obviously from month-to-month we look at it, we go through waves of big commercial then residential. But as we look across the whole year we really liked the balance between the residential and the commercial.

Damian Hackett:

Is the maintenance a big part of the business as well?

Will Martin:

Yeah, a very big part of the business. So, not only do we like to carry on the maintenance from some of the projects that we complete on the landscape and construction side, but we actually go out and actively seek and win contracts outside of just our construction work. So yeah, it's a big part of the business.

Damian Hackett: And I guess that's, as you say, that's where it all started, isn't it? On the maintenance side.

Will Martin:

Yeah, definitely.

Damian Hackett:

And would you say now the business as far as where revenue comes from is more from the construction side? Or again, is that kind of weighted?

Will Martin:

The revenue, it's definitely more from the construction side just because the packages are bigger, especially on the commercial side. But no, I'd say there's definitely more of a portion on the construction side, but a big part of our business is maintenance.

Damian Hackett:

Yeah, okay. So one of the things that has become more commonplace over the last few years when people are selling property is to really get it into its best state. So whether it's getting builders or painters involved to look at the home, a lot of people are using stylists to make sure they've got the right furniture, renting furniture in, changing blinds, curtains, and even more so now landscaping as well. Is that a big part of what you do or a factor in what you do? And what's involved there?

Will Martin:

We've noticed a massive transformation across the past four years, where people were selling homes it was typically they'd call us up and ask us just to do the maintenance makeover just to clean the lawns up, do the hedges, remove a few dead trees, bits and pieces. But we've noticed that as the market becomes ... as the media has got a lot more involved and photography has got a lot bigger in the sales of markets, people are putting a bigger emphasis on actually changing the landscape. So instead of just doing the maintenance, they're wanting to add things and change things. And I think it's just something that we're very good at and understanding of how to get the most out of a dollar in the landscape, especially when it's coming into sale.

Damian Hackett:

So what bit of advice would you give people who are in that position now thinking about, "What can I do?"

Will Martin:

Well, number one, call us. But it all depends on the house and what they're trying to get out of the sale. I mean, if they're going to get a better sale out of having the house that's looking a bit more run down and more of the market of someone's going to buy it to do it up, then I'd suggest not actually touching the landscape. But most people now, a lot of the work we are doing is in New Farm, there's so many housing sales going on in New Farm and inner city Brisbane. And typically those homes, they're nicer style homes. So it's different for each house, but I'd say focus on the soft landscape. If you're going to do a landscape project, typically a lot of the cost comes from your hard scape, your concreting and your timber and the likes and the lighting. So I'd say that especially if you are going in for sale and you're looking for an increased sale value, I'd spend your money on the soft scape, which is the plants, the mulches, and the grass.

Damian Hackett:

Is it flowering plants or trees or shrubs or a bit of everything?

Will Martin:

It's just impact plants and just putting in something that's going to make a bit of a feature. So it's not about ... it's definitely a lot more of less is more. So understanding what's going to work in with the house and just using the existing landscape. You don't necessarily have to come in and gut the whole place out just to get the place looking better. So it's just that every house is different, so it's just understanding what they want to get as an outcome and seeing how it's going to work with their existing landscape.

Damian Hackett:

Does Brisbane have any type of unique style at all as far as landscaping goes? Or it's pretty hard, I mean, to ... is there anything particularly in Brisbane that you can think of?

Will Martin:

Our business really found its strats after doing a lot of work on James Street. So we find that typically when people are doing new homes, a lot of people love the photos and they love the design on James Street, which is why I think we do a lot of work in the area is because we've pretty much constructed all the landscape you see on James Street. So it's definitely more ... the Brisbane style is more the modern lush. If the house has a good mix of sun and shade, it's great because you can throw in the hardier plants in the more open space areas and then work with some really lush areas with the shade. We're finding that the biggest market moving forward though is pots. People want indoor and outdoor pots and plants and it's something that we do a lot of.

Damian Hackett:

I guess our climate's pretty good for growing stuff here.

Will Martin:

It's unreal, yeah.

Damian Hackett:

Yeah, as long as you get enough water to it. I mean, are there any particular plants that are popular that are difficult to maintain in our climate?

Will Martin:

I think it's people ... they see plants, mainly a lot of it comes from Pinterest, and they see plants on Pinterest that might be in a pot outdoors, and they want to put it indoors. And so there's definitely 100% there's plants that only work outdoors and there's plants that only work indoors. So it's just about giving people an understanding of what's going to work.

Damian Hackett:

Do you see trends that happen? I mean, it's four years, I guess, but have you seen all of a sudden types of plants become very popular? Is there a type of indoor fig at the moment now? Or is it ... what's running hot?

Will Martin:

Yeah, the indoor plants, so the Pothos vine. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Pottery Barn in James Street? Maybe you've seen the cascading vines coming out of Pottery Barn? So once that got in store and those vines started to grow, the Pothos vine is so popular in terms of commercial developments but also in people's houses. It's such a nice vine you could have in your office just here, and you've got the indirect sunlight coming in. It works really well because you just put a little piece of greenery in the corner of your office.

Damian Hackett:

It's pretty hardy, is it?

Will Martin:

Yeah, it is quite hardy. It doesn't like full sun, it sort of likes more indirect sun, so it's a great indoor plant. That and the Monstera, it's a big elephant leaf lush green looking plant. And so if you're going to go for indoors, that's two of the most popular plants we seem to be doing. But I find that a lot of the work that we do, and we push for things we're passionate about, is the arid design with the cactus. So if we can find the right house that has the right sun and exposure, we love, love installing the cactus theme around houses.

Damian Hackett:

Yep, is that kind of like a Californian type of inspiration? Or that kind of West Coast? Would it be Mexico? Maybe Palm Springs?

Will Martin:

Yeah, Palm Springs is probably the best example. So using palms and then tie them in with low set cactus. It's more of a minimalist garden that says more. So cactus, they are quite expensive per plant, but you just don't have to use as many. So yeah, we love the arid theme.

Damian Hackett:

So you mentioned pot plants are a huge thing. Tell me a bit more about that.

Will Martin:

Both residential and commercial, we've seen a huge shift in the market for pot plants. It's more for spaces where you can't get a garden bed in. It's definitely like the inside of the house is a prime example of that, or on balconies. So we spoke about Oxley and Stirling before on the rooftop. One of the features on the rooftop is we've got two monster pot plants, we have two big ex ground olive trees. And just because they're raised, it just gives them that more height. We love doing it on the commercial, but I think our real passion is doing it for the residential because we can get through with the design a lot more, it's up to us.

Damian Hackett:

So do you get involved in the maintenance of the residential ones as well? Pot plants. Is that a weekly thing? Or a monthly thing?

Will Martin:

Honestly, it comes down to the plant. So a lot of the plants you do put in pot plants are the arid succulents which will need next to no water. But then, if-

Damian Hackett:

What about getting them outside for light? Do they need to go outside at all in the summer?

Will Martin:

When we install them, we really try an install them so you don't have to move them. So if you're putting in a plan side of it, if a customer really wants a style of plant that needs to be moved around, then you can typically put the whole pot plant in a pot and you can put either some coconut mesh or hessian around the top to dress it up. But typically if we're going to install a pot and a plant, we like to think that that's where it's going to stay. We're going to install it top to bottom with the right drainage and the right irrigation if you can't get irrigation to it, and so it sits permanently there and grows and you see the full growth out of it. But pot plants are a massive thing, especially for the residential market.

Damian Hackett:

A lot of commercial spaces too, you see a lot of green walls externally and internally. I was over in San Fran a year or so ago at one of the big headquarters of ... I think it was Airbnb, and they had this huge six or seven level internal green wall. And a lot of the new spaces are open plan, but they do have a lot of pot plants and vines and planter boxes and so forth. So I guess people are more conscious of being green.

Will Martin:

Yeah, definitely. I mean, Brisbane's doing really well with it with the amount of greenery we have across all of our developments. And it's even part of ... council won't approve a building if it doesn't have a certain amount of greenery in it now, which is great for us. And as you drive around, you see all the new buildings go up, you see how much greenery's actually overflowing them.

Will Martin:

The green walls, there was definitely a big hype around the green walls. Would have seen the most amount of green walls go up probably one to two years ago, I haven't seen them as prevalent in a lot of the projects that we've been on.

Damian Hackett:

So was that a fad, do you think? Or are there other issues?

Will Martin:

It's not a fad, it's the cost. It's the cost. So one, it's a big cost to install. And then two, the ongoing as well. I think it's worthwhile, but because I'm from the landscape industry because it does look amazing. But in terms of ... yeah, you have to maintain it properly or else you see a big green wall, you spent a lot of money to get it up there, you want to make sure it looks good.

Damian Hackett:

Is the maintenance replacing dead plants? Or is it just feeding it?

Will Martin:

Making sure that it gets the right water and the right ... it's called a fertigation system to all the plants. And it's just about if it's installed properly, the maintenance shouldn't be that hard, but it's just about finding the right company to install it.

Damian Hackett:

And so do you have issues sourcing, you know? It sounds like you're turning over a lot of plants.

Will Martin:

Yeah, we do.

Damian Hackett:

Do you have a supply chain? Or do you guys have a nursery? How does it work?

Will Martin:

I think it's like any business, as you grow you get better buying power. So we're definitely one of the biggest buyers of plants in South East Queensland as far as landscapers go. So through that we've now built really, really good relationships with the nurseries right across South East Queensland, but we're sourcing a lot now from Sydney. So we did a trip to Sydney about two months ago now, and met up with one key nursery down there called Exotic Nurseries. And Paul, who owns Exotics, he's just awesome. And the plants that are down there are unreal. So if we can't find them here in South East Queensland, we source them from Sydney.

Damian Hackett:

So that's more of a, they're just not here type of thing, and they've got a bigger supply.

Will Martin:

It comes down to growth rate. So all through summer, kind of leading up after summer it's great because you've seen a whole hot season of growth and so there's plenty in stock. But once you start getting into winter and on the backs of winter, like now, it's a really hard time to source stock because people just say, "Listen, I've got it in the right size pot, but the actual plant doesn't reflect the pot size, it's about two to three months away." And that's where we've got to start to dig in and really start to outsource and work different suppliers. And that's why a lot of our stock now comes from Sydney, from Paul from Exotics.

Damian Hackett:

Great. So how many pots do you think you do actually turn over a week?

Will Martin:

It changes from week to week, but on an average during a busy period we could install up to 50 pots a week.

Damian Hackett:

Wow, that's huge.

Will Martin:

Yeah, it's a big part of our business. It just opens up so much more space to landscape.

Damian Hackett:

And I've noticed too, a lot of people if they've got a brand new high end residential either development or a great home or something commercially, they don't want to wait six months, a year for the garden to grow, they want impact straight away. So I guess you have to source a lot of mature plants. Do you find that? Yeah.

Will Martin:

Yeah. So the majority of plants we are installing are all mature. So we do such a wide range of work from commercial to residential, from petrol stations right to top end homes in Brisbane. So you definitely find that in the residential market, people don't want to wait.

Damian Hackett:

No. Particularly if they're putting their home on the market, they don't want to wait six months for the plants to grow, do they?

Will Martin:

You have to put in the right size plants. But as you go up in size, it's not like if you get a plant that's 10cms tall to 20cms, it's not double the price, it's more. It could be triple or four times the price in terms of their growth rate. So we deal heavily in the mature plant market and it's just why we have to have ... like, we've got a few key suppliers, but if they're out then we've got to start sourcing from all around Queensland.

Damian Hackett:

Is that an issue at the moment? Like, the amount of mature trees that are out there that are good quality? Or is it you can always get your hands on them?

Will Martin:

Yeah, as funny as it sounds, you get shortages of types of trees. So I know last year we had a massive shortage of your Eumundis, Elaeocarpus Eumundis, and so they were hard to source.

Damian Hackett:

You can't just build one. You have to wait.

Will Martin:

No, you've got to wait, especially if you need a particular size. You might need to fill a lot of ... the council might have had a lot of jobs and they have the set size that they use, they could have gone through thousands of them. So it's more about just finding the right suppliers who are smart in terms of what they grow and what they propagate. So obviously they're rolling the dice to see what's going to be in the market at that time, to see if that's what's going to get bought. And then for us, I think we just learnt from ... each year you learn from your mistakes, and I think ours was not having enough suppliers or having strong enough relationships to say, "If that project's going to be a year away, let's take their stock and lets replenish their stock with something else."

Damian Hackett:

And so here's the question I ask some people sometimes, difficult to answer because it's a bit like asking someone do they have a favorite child, but do you have a favorite job that you've done to date?

Will Martin:

Don't want to rub it in the wrong way.

Damian Hackett:

No, exactly. Just the way it turned out.

Will Martin:

I tell everyone it's my favorite job.

Damian Hackett:

You don't have to answer that question.

Will Martin:

No, there's definitely been ... I think I can answer the question a bit differently. There's been a couple of milestone jobs for us that have transformed our business. So I think Nick and Cal Malouf, who are some of the owners on James Street, they gave us a big opportunity to landscape Pottery Barn. And up until then, we'd done a number of commercial projects, but that was a big step for us. So they put a lot of trust in us to make that project work. So that was a big stepping stone. So Pottery Barn was a big one. And then they were also involved ... Nick was involved in West Rugby. So Pottery Barn and West Rugby were two for us that really took the business to the next level.

Damian Hackett:

Yep, and that got you noticed and people saw it and asked, "Hey, who did that?"

Will Martin:

Yeah, definitely. Well, we were just doing so many residential projects when we first started. And if you say, "What are you working on?" If I say, "I'm working on 52 Thompson Street," they go, "Okay, I don't know what that is." But as we started to bigger more recognizable commercial projects, that's when we started to see our business scale. So Pottery Barn on James Street, that was a big one for us. Then West Rugby was also a big one.

Will Martin:

I think one of the residential projects we really enjoyed doing, there was a lot of effort that went into it, was a project over in Hawthorne on Gordon Street on the river. It was a brand new build, we did that with Condev Construction, and it was definitely a longer project. It wasn't just come in, do the project start to finish, it was a few stops and breaks between to make sure the build went smoothly and the landscape got installed at the right times. But that was an unreal project that we got to see from start to finish on a brand new home. So really, really passionate about that one. And Jack and our manager, Chris, and a few of our key guys were there one night with Todd with the builder yelling at us that we were going to fines for working late and we had our cranes there working until 9:30 at night to put the boulevard trees in for the driveway, and the owner had Jack in a headlock saying how happy he was. So yeah, it's definitely ... yeah, that's a project we really enjoyed doing.

Damian Hackett:

I mean, in general people are pretty chilled on the river side in Hawthorne, so you wouldn't have got that much trouble, I'm sure.

Will Martin: Yeah, you normally get a pat on the back or a big smile. Sometimes you even get the emotional, on a residential project, you get a few tears once it's all in. But yeah, the headlock was definitely a specialty. So waiting for a few more headlock jobs.

Damian Hackett:

Is there anything you're working on at the moment you're really excited about? You can't wait to come to fruition?

Will Martin:

Yeah. We're actually doing a project on the Sunshine Beach at the moment, Sunshine Beach on Ross Crescent. So it's heavily marketed on our Instagram and Facebook at the moment, and that's a really, really cool project. So we worked with the owners to design that and it's using ... we salvaged railway sleepers from the old Queensland Rail Line. It's still got all the metal attached to it, and just gutting out the whole of the front of the house and just making it look brand new. It's just something really different. So we've got ex ground olive trees that are four and a half meters tall and putting in massive ex ground Pandanus Palms and using all recycled timber. So we've had a huge amount of attention, people driving past and stopping and taking photos. So I think we do a fair bit of work on the Sunshine Coast, but I think that's going to start to really ramp up.

Damian Hackett:

And I guess to round that out, is there a type of project you thought, "Gee, I'd really love to do something like that one day?" Whether it be commercial or residential, is there anything you thought, "Geez, that's really what I aim for?" I know like sometimes as an agent there might be typical houses around Brisbane and you think, "I'd love to sell that one day," you know? It's a landmark. Is there anything that pops into your mind of that nature?

Will Martin:

I mean, like people are putting so much emphasis on landscape, we find there's a lot more emotion being put into the commercial as well. But in terms of on the residential side, just the large scale homes, we're loving doing that and actually taking on the hard scape component as well. Like, doing the driveways, doing all the block work, walls and water features and taps and the likes there. So I think if you say where do we want to go? It's the large scale homes, we want to do more of those.

Will Martin:

And then the commercial, I think we've got a really good hold on the commercial market. So we're doing a lot of the top end work in Brisbane and we're just really enjoying it.

Damian Hackett:

If we take you back to your roots of maintenance, any good tips for people maintaining their lawns? Or certain things they should do through the year at different times?

Will Martin:

Yeah, definitely. So lawn grub is a thing that we battle with all the time. I'm sure everyone that has a home has dealt with lawn grub in Queensland before. So it's just about getting onto it before it happens. So it's the wet and it's the heat. So before we come into those wet hot months towards the end of the year, spray before it happens. It's not something that you want to spray after you see the effects because as you see the effects, you've already had two weeks of damage. So with your lawn grub either have someone maintaining your property who knows what they're doing with lawns, or if you're doing it yourself, just make sure you put into your calendar spray for lawn grub.

Damian Hackett:

That's probably September, October.

Will Martin:

Yeah, September's a great time to do it. September, October, and it's just people forget and then once they see the signs they go, "Oh shit."

Damian Hackett:

Yeah, and they see the brown patches and-

Will Martin:

And they go and they spray it, and it's a bit too late. So lawn grub's the big thing for turf.

Damian Hackett:

What about top dressing and things like that? Is that necessary?

Will Martin:

Top dressing's something that can be done really at any time of the year, but obviously coming through just before the hot. The best time to install landscape is right around towards the end of winter because it's not going to be so hard on the plants and then it rolls right in to the spring and then summer and it gets the full summer growth, but we're pretty fortunate with our climate here in Brisbane. People ask us all the time, "When's the best time to install." You can't go wrong, it's just about how long you put the water on for and how you install it.

Damian Hackett:

What about feeding shrubs and plants?

Will Martin:

Yeah, it's something that gets missed a lot, and that's why the properties that we maintain, without sounding biased, that's why they look so good and they stand out is because we put such a big emphasis on the fertilizer and the feeding. So, typically when we're re-doing a landscape, if it's not a new landscape we're re-doing it, it looks tired because one, it hasn't been pruned properly, but two, mainly because it hasn't been fed. So you'd be surprised how much of a difference it can make just fertilizing your property properly.

Damian Hackett:

Great. And is mulching gardens important or not?

Will Martin:

Mulching, yeah. Mulching is very good. Typically when you mulch, you want to fertilize as well. But mulching, it's more of an aesthetic look.

Damian Hackett:

Is it weed control as well?

Will Martin:

It is great for weed control. And if you have a large back, and you're not going to plant out for a while, it's definitely worthwhile putting the mulch down to suppress the weeds, because once the weeds go, you have to rip out a layer of the soil to get rid of them properly.

Damian Hackett:

Yep. So can you see any changes or any big visions for landscaping in Brisbane and what may or may not change in the next four or five years?

Will Martin:

Yeah, definitely. Rooftop landscaping. So you mentioned you had a podcast with Tim from Aria.

Damian Hackett:

Yeah.

Will Martin:

He's a good friend of ours. That's been the biggest shift across the whole market we've seen since we've been here, for the short time we've been operating for, is the emphasis on landscaping commercial builds. So before, it was just a plug in for how much they thought it was going to cost with the landscape. Whereas now it's a pivotal part of the design and there's a much, much bigger budget towards how they're going to landscape the building.

Damian Hackett:

And that's one of the things that I really commented on when I was talking to Tim was just how outstanding the rooftop at Oxley and Stirling was.

Will Martin:

Honestly, that's the best we've done. So working with Aria and the team on that building there was ... we didn't do the initial install for the ground levels, but we pretty well installed everything you see on the rooftop in terms of the soft scape.

Damian Hackett:

Yeah, it's really taken it to another level, hasn't it, as far as living goes? You know, people used to have like half a pool up there and a couple of outdoor chairs or something?

Will Martin:

It's massive. Yeah, Tim and the team at Aria, we love working with them. We work with them almost on a daily basis across their projects and their maintenance as well. So they really see the vision in landscaping and they understand the importance of it. And we're seeing it, it's not just Aria now, there's definitely a few other developers out there and builders as well that are seeing the emphasis on that because it's just translating into sales.

Damian Hackett:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and as we get more dense and as more people come in, people want that lifestyle without them having to maintain it themselves. And if they can just catch a lift up to the roof top and enjoy that, it's a big plus.

Will Martin:

Yeah, definitely.

Damian Hackett:

It really is. So listen, congratulations to both of you on your success to date. In four short years, you've come a long way and I'm really excited to see where you're going to go from here. And thanks for taking the time to come in and have a chat to us.

Will Martin:

Awesome, thanks for having me.

Damian Hackett:

Cheers. Thanks Will.

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